Susan
So, you know, if I walked into every patient's room and slammed down my gloves and swore that would not be okay. But I think that, you know, in, in isolated cases where we let our humanness show more than we want. Because not letting it show is just too friggin heavy. Is it so wrong to say, you know what?

That I wasn't your best self? But it's okay, because you can't be your best self all the time. Even at work.

Music
I traveled, I have had it been so long. I couldn't really say I can't.

Susan Welcome to who We Are inside a Cupid podcast. I am Susan. My pronouns are she her and I am so grateful to be finally sitting in this beautiful space with two of my favorite people. To learn more about who each of us are inside and to meet more people. In our community. And so I, who I have with me today.

Well, who is with me today is, my good friend Adriana. Adriana, do you want to say hello?

Adriana
Hello, everyone. I'm Adriana. My pronouns are she and her. And I'm so glad we are here today. And with us, we have our good friend John.

John
That's me. My name is John Guinane, pronouns he, his, him, and, I'm a media producer here at the University of Pittsburgh, but I also interview people a lot. So that's kind of that's kind of my thing with Cupid right now.

Susan
Yeah, I'm having a lot of imposter syndrome because one of us is a professional and the other two are not. And I bet by the end of this episode, you'll be able to figure out who's who.

John
I think Susan is selling herself short. She is the lead of this whole entire project called Cupid. What is it?

Susan
Cupid is tough to describe. And so I don't want to. I don't want to get too far into the weeds of what Cupid is. But essentially, it's this idea that we all have the people that we present, as in our different spaces, and then we have who we actually are on the inside, and the important parts of who we are may change from year to year, day to day, minute to minute.

But we are expected to be the same on the outside all the time. And I think that that disconnect is so exhausting to maintain. And so what I want this podcast to be is a space for us to really show who we are, in a way that is authentic and raw and just lets us be human instead of being all of these roles that we're asked to be in any given day.

And the way that I think about this, which, is a debate on exactly what the term is. But I looked it up, John. I looked it up and it is called a a push back. No, a pin back button is the official term.

John
Is it?

Susan
Yes. So for any of you who are older millennials or beyond.

John
Me.

Susan
You may remember Book It where you would read a book and if you went to Pizza Hut, you would get a giant pin back button, like the big metal button pins that go on your shirt, and you would get a star for each book that you read. And if you like, filled up the button, you would get a personal pan pizza.

It was pretty much the best thing ever in the late 90s. Clearly, because I'm still talking about it 30 years later. But, but I think about this idea of, you know, when do we wear those pin back buttons? And, you know, they're often used for campaigns? I've seen them as just kind of really silly things to kind of spark joy.

Or to show something that we're proud of, right in Book It. And I think sometimes that I wish in certain situations I could wear a button about what I was going through on the inside to help people better understand how I was showing up on the outside. Because I think that having to carry that button on the inside and not let it affect you to kind of just keep plugging along is so heavy, it's so exhausting.

But it's also exhausting to have to explain yourself. Like, I don't want to have to have a ten minute conversation with everybody I run into in a day about why I look so tired, or why I'm a little grumpy. But if I could just have a pin back button, that just explains it like, you know, and it could be something that is really, really heavy.

Like, I am the mom of a child with disability. Or it could be something a little lighter, like, I got pooped on this morning, and that's why I'm 20 minutes late to this meeting, and I may smell a little weird. But I just think about how much lighter we would all be if we could just wear our buttons.

So that's the idea of this podcast, is that we are going to be exploring our buttons and how we can wear them, and how we can invite others to wear them, in our spaces. And we will be talking to each other, but we're also going to be talking to folks around the university and around our community, so we can get to know each other a little bit more beyond our roles.

And, the responsibilities that we have in our day to day lives.

John
So what do you want to talk about today, Susan?

Susan
You know, I've been thinking about my collection of buttons. I don't know.

John
I think we have one button.

Susan
I know how much time do we have? No I'm kidding.

I think today I want to talk about high-functioning anxiety.

Adriana
That's a good one.

John
I've talked to a lot of people who have that.

Susan
Yeah, yeah, it's a thing. I bet you a lot of people where we work have it. And I decided that that's the button I want to talk about today, because I was up at 3 a.m. and I couldn't sleep, and I got a lot of work done, and I'm sure that my boss was really proud of me.

But I know that that is not it's not a good place to be. And why is that important as far as wearing a button, you know, you might think, okay, of high functioning anxiety. Cool. It means you're really good at your job, and, you get stuff done. Like, you know, why do we need to know that?

But I think that it comes at such a cost. It's the reason that. I often, get really, kind of passionate and emotional about things, I think because I think the high-functioning anxiety and really, maybe this is this is the real button is, I'm a deeply feeling human. And I think high-functioning society goes along with that. But I think the essence of the button is that I am a deeply feeling human.

Have either of you heard of that term or another one might be, like, highly sensitive.

John
I don't know if I've heard that term, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, you're just a person who experiences feelings. Maybe more than I want to say the norm.

Adriana
Yeah. If this is about how you feel, maybe it's everything is exponentially larger, you feel more. So is it because you're anxious or is it because you are a very, deeply feeling person?

Susan
I think the deeply feeling comes first because I think when you feel everything deeply, there's a lot to be anxious about. And I just think that when you're so tuned in to not just like the feelings of those around you, but you know, things that are going on in the world and you see, like, you know, a person that is walking with a shuffle, and it looks a little bit like Parkinson's and they're a little stooped, and you think about, you know, your patient who also had Parkinson's and what they were going through. And you're like putting yourself in the shoes of this random person in the grocery store. And you're doing that all day, every day. Like, you can't just be out in the world living your life without seeing all of the injustices and the the little moments of sadness and joy, which can also be weird, Like if you're watching, you know, somebody, like, playing with their two year old on the park and it's like, there's such a beautiful moment and you're just, like, lost in this space with these two people and they look up and they notice you and you're like, oh, sorry, that was a little weird. I was just enjoying you having that joy together.

I don't want to speak for all deeply feeling people, but I would bet that a lot of people who feel deeply or consider themselves sensitive also have anxiety, and I would bet that a lot of those people, you wouldn't necessarily know it when you look at them or when you interact with them. I remember being in an interview for Cupid and somebody talking about neurodiversity and neurodivergence, and I hadn't considered myself on that spectrum, but I think maybe it could be because I do think that it's this idea, and I think about this a lot in my parenting because my son is also deeply feeling, and it's the idea that for him in that one moment, the green cup is not the same as the blue cup, and he needs the blue cup, and that is a real feeling, and you could think that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Who cares? But for him like that is real. And that's what it's like to be a deeply feeling person, like, so you're constantly being told like, oh, you know, calm down. That's not a big deal. You know, don't worry about it. And all that's doing is just saying you're wrong. You're stupid. You should feel shame about what you are going through. And all that then does is, is make you feel it even more intensely.

Adriana
When you feel this way, do you normally focus more on your work, on your professional side, or more on your personal side? You know, some people, they feel this way, and they start cleaning the house, like they really need to do something about it. So which direction do you go? Do you vary?

Susan
Yeah. I think the problem with being deeply feeling that I've experienced, I guess my problem with it, I don't want to speak for anyone else, is that I'm not good at delineating where I show up as a deeply feeling person, so I might be talking about a challenge at work and get just as fired up and, you know, into it and probably a little bit, quote unquote, "too much" as I would advocating for, you know, my kiddo in the medical center or taking care of, you know, a friend who needs care.

Like I think that it doesn't... It's a nice... It's a nice button to have because I feel like it helps to explain why I behave the way that I do, and it also is a way of me honoring and recognizing that, like, I realize this is slightly, like, left of normal. Like, I realize that most people, you know, it's considered... I would think that in a lot of situations, especially in a professional setting, it's almost considered probably, like, unprofessional.

And I think about actually one time where I call it getting my yellow card at work, not at Pitt, thankfully, but it was July of 2020, and I had just lost my job working in an outpatient OB-GYN office. Actually, my mom was my attending, and I joke that she fired me. She kind of did. I mean, there were no more gyne exams to be done, so they couldn't really... It was going to be tough to keep me on full-time when there was no work. And she also knew that I... My love of critical care meant that I, you know, wanted to go back into the unit and help where I could because it was such a difficult time in the healthcare industry. And so I was back at work in the ICU. It was July. People were dying all the time. We were caring for more patients than I'd ever cared for. And just grappling with a lot of things, you know, isolation and fear for my own safety, for that of my family, and just the incalculable human loss and suffering that I saw every day.

And I remember that there was this day, and I had to put a central line in a patient, just like a big tube that goes in one of their big veins. And I kept trying to get all of the materials to do the procedure, and, like, something kept being missing. I was like, all right, I got all this stuff, I'm good.

And then I would go and look for something that's usually stocked in the room, and it wasn't there. And I'd have to walk, like, around the corner and, you know, take off my gown and my gloves and do all that stuff and go get this other thing. And then I come back in. And I'd go to grab one more thing that, again, should have been in the room, and it wasn't. And by the third time that I saw something wasn't there, I was just like, you've got to be freaking kidding me. And I, like, threw my gloves into the garbage. And I wasn't saying it to anybody. And to be fair, the patient, luckily, was very sedated. And I may have not said freaking, to be totally honest. But anyway, so there was a respiratory therapist and a nurse in the room. And they overheard, obviously, they heard me say this. And when I came back in, I had calmed down.

I was like, oof, that was not my best moment. And I said to the nurse, hey, I'm sorry, that was not geared towards you. I am just, like, totally overwhelmed here, and I'm just frustrated. I just want to be able to help this patient. Like, there are so many patients I can't help, and I just need to be able to get this line in, because it means, like, I haven't failed as a healthcare provider and a human.

Like, somehow, everything rested on putting in the central line in, like, an efficient time. And in the interim, you know, the respiratory therapist didn't hear me say that part, right? She'd only heard the first part. And so she had complained about me to her supervisor. And my supervisor brought me in and talked to me about how I need to behave professionally, and that's not what we do.

And, you know, I felt so unseen in that moment, because it was automatically assumed that I had a choice in how I behaved in that moment. And I mean, yes, like, theoretically, we all have a choice in how we behave, until our executive functioning part of our brain is no longer working, because we are in fight or flight, and our amygdala, our, like, emotional part of our brain is what's really going. And, you know, I had been working for the department for 10 years. I had never gotten any sort of behavioral violations. And so it was a little bit upsetting that... at no point was anybody considering what else might have been going on that led to that behavior. I mean, we were in the middle of a global pandemic.

The healthcare system was strained beyond measure. And, like, I just wish at that point I'd had a button that just said, like, I'm a deeply feeling person, and I'm doing the best that I can, and it's not going to be perfect. And instead, you know, of seeing me as a human who was struggling with an existential crisis, I think we all were struggling with, I was seen as unprofessional.

I was seen as unprofessional and, you know, somebody that needed correctional action. And that just was really, is really tough. I mean, but I also think that being a deeply feeling person and a healthcare provider is really powerful because it also, you know, let me do that job in a way that I really felt like I was honoring the people that I was caring for. I mean, there are moments where I witnessed things that I knew were so important to these folks, and I was feeling it right along with them. And I think it made it a little bit easier for them, you know, to know that they weren't alone. But, you know, those moments aren't ever celebrated. Like, you're never celebrated, I don't think, often for being a deeply feeling person and doing what you should be doing

But I think you can often get in trouble when. When it sort of hijacks you.

Adriana
So, if you were to say you were wearing your button and you had your statement to the person, how do you expect the person to react to you? What is the difference between wearing your button and not wearing your button?

Susan
That's such a good question. I think we have a tendency to So, there's this idea that I heard recently about giving people the most generous interpretation of their action. And I think what the button does is it reminds someone, it's a visual reminder to give the most generous interpretation. So that if I'd had that button that day, they wouldn't see, you know, a PA who's just being unprofessional. They would see a human who is struggling with fatigue and anxiety and frustration and needs support more than she needs to be reprimanded.

John
So, talking to a lot of people and interviewing a lot of people about their buttons, it makes me think of what some people said. They would talk about, you know, following the rules or assimilating. And that really hit me hard. So, in this case, there was kind of like a rule that the hospital had that was broken.

But at the same time, there are these feelings and this anxiety that you had as a person. That's from my understanding. And what I'm wondering is, how do we navigate that in society? We have rules, but can those rules be bent for certain people who have certain buttons that they're showing to other people? How do you feel about that when it comes to the situation you talked about?

Because I, I'm guessing people who are listening to the podcast might be asking that question.

Susan
Yeah, it's a good question. I'm sure most people would not want to know that their health care provider can get that flustered and throw down their gloves. And, you know, that's not what we're supposed to be. I think it depends on the rule. I think, you know, we're all socialized to behave a certain way and present ourselves a certain way. And I think that, I think for the most part, those expectations are there to serve some function.

I think some people might argue that often that function is to keep those that are in power in power and those that aren't in power not in power, particularly when it comes to ideas of what is professionalism. But I think that there has to be, there has to be space for humanity and empathy and compassion within those socialized rules. So, you know, if I walked into every patient's room and slammed down my gloves and swore, that would not be okay. But I think that, you know, in isolated cases where we let our humanness show more than we want because not letting it show is just too frigging heavy.

Is it so wrong to say, you know what? Now that wasn't your best self, but it's okay because you can't be your best self all the time, even at work and especially at work in a hospital, in an intensive care unit during a global pandemic where people are dying every day.

John
So forgiveness a little bit?

Susan
Yeah, yeah, forgiveness.

Adriana
And I want to say understanding and empathy. I think we need to have that. We cannot just go ahead and not do that every day with everybody. And we need to know what the person is going through.

John
Yeah. I know we're talking about, you know, like, wearing your button and other people could see that button. What if you look down and look at that button yourself and you're like, oh man, I'm wearing this button. Maybe I could do something for myself. I could recognize that I have this anxiety. So that's a very symbolic way of saying, what can you do for you in these situations? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that might be listening to this that can relate to what you're going through.

Susan
Yeah, you know, I think, and that's also a great point because I think so often, you know, whatever we're holding inside that feels heavy, that feels like it's something we wish people would know, but we don't really wanna feel like explaining all the time. There's shame associated with that. You know, there's a reason why we keep it inside, potentially.

And I think that to your point, if we can look down and remember that this is part of who we are, it gives us a lot of strength. And I wouldn't wanna take it away. I love being deeply feeling. And I distinctly remember thinking in college that once I went on antidepressants, I was a lot less productive at like writing papers and stuff.

And it was harder for me to, I actually like got worse grades after I started an antidepressant because I didn't have the anxiety that kept me up until 3 a.m. to finish my paper and make sure it was perfect. So that was like really hard, right? When you think about these things as like almost like kind of like superpowers. But I think in general, the things that are our buttons are heavy and we wanna wear them on our sleeves so that we don't have to feel alone in carrying them. And I think when we can look down on them, look down at them, excuse me, it's a reminder to give ourselves grace and to give us the space to say, it is okay. You do not have to be perfect. You do not have to remove your button in order to feel like you belong

Music
What you're saying is not what I'm saying. I, I, I'm on my. Little my weight. And I'm done with this weight. And anytime I want my.