Susan
Welcome to Who We Are Inside a Cupid podcast. I'm so glad you're here. We are so excited today on the Who We Are Inside podcast to be talking to, a guest about a topic that is really near and dear to our hearts, which is belonging. We want to learn what it is and how we cultivate it in our spaces, and we've got the perfect person to tell us how to do just that.

Susan
Doctor Emiola Oriola. So I'm going to read you your bio, and, introduce you properly. Hailing originally from Nigeria. Doctor. Emiola Oriola serves as the inaugural director for the new Office of Inclusion and Belonging. Prior to this role, he was the founding program manager for the new Office of Interfaith Dialogue and Engagement. During his time in that position, he helped students, campus and community members create spaces, share perspectives, restore justice, and build bridges across various backgrounds.

Susan
Doctor Oriola received his BA from the University of Pittsburgh, his MA from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, and his Ed.D. from Pitt. His research focuses on experiential learning, global perspectives, and building significant learning skills in students through intentional exposure, communal dialog, and creative expression. Doctor Oriola is the recipient of the Black Prestige Community Leader Award, who's Who in Black Pittsburgh honoree, a One Young World US ambassador, Pittsburgh Magazine and Pumps 40 under 40 awardee.

Susan
A recipient of the New Pittsburgh Courier Men of Excellence Award. A recipient of the University of Pittsburgh Leadership Award for exceptional leadership in investing, now students and families. A recipient of the Rising African American Leader Award from the African American Alumni Council of the University of Pittsburgh, and an awardee of Interfaith Youth Core. We are each other's harvest, and that's just until 2020, so this might not even be a full list.

Susan
Emiola ultimately sees himself as a lover of people who strives to build unity in diversity proactively and intentionally, wherever he goes. Doctor Oriola thank you so much for being with us today.

Emiola
The pleasure’s mine. I appreciate the long resume. I got to take that offline, because it pumps me up too much. But it does detail, not the laws, but the journey I’ve been on. So. And I'm glad that it brought me here to talk with some friends.

Susan
Awesome. So, we’re just going to jump right in. Your one thing is to bring your whole self. And you were expecting to engage with everyone else’s whole selves as well, today. So how does this idea of our whole selves factor into belonging?

Emiola
So when I think of the whole selves, it's because we work in higher ed, because we live in a country that we all people are used to bringing the resume version because you want to impress people, so you usually don't bring your whole selves people. You know, I appreciate my doctorate and degrees and where I work, but because we don't really want to relate to each other, we want to impress each other.

Emiola
We bring parts of who we are that we think the person will accept. Parts that we believe they won't deny or reject or parts that won't make us look good. But for me, I've seen belonging shift from just impressing people to connecting and relating because that's where you can help people feel like all of them belongs, not just a part that is acceptable.

Emiola
So for me, bringing of the whole selves, I speak in metaphors and images a lot. Not because I'm just lofty and writing poems all the time, but it's it helps contextualize complex subjects. And when I talk about bringing the whole selves, it's bringing, bringing all of you to the table, so that people can really connect because, you know, nobody wants to feel like they belong half heartedly or only my brain belongs on a campus, but not my skin color, not my culture, not my language, not all of me.

Emiola
So for me, I let people know you're going to get all of me. It may come out in spurts and and paces, but because I love and respect people, to a high degree, and I love and respect myself to a high degree, I can't keep part of me hating because it makes other those uncomfortable or because it makes me uncomfortable.

Emiola
I'm going to bring it up with wisdom. So to me, that's the soil of belonging. When we're talking about planting seeds as things grow.

Susan
I really love that. I, I had a follow up question, which is do we need to belong to ourselves and own ourselves before we can belong in other spaces? Because I heard you talk a lot about, you know, not bringing your resume self.

Susan
And I imagine there's some vulnerability there. In, in feeling like you can bring your whole self and also accepting all the parts of yourself. So how do you see that kind of interplay thing?

Emiola
For sure. I think you have to feel a sense of belonging to yourself. First, it's similar to you. You can't love others until you really love yourself.

Emiola
And you can tell when people don't love themselves by how they treat other people, by how they show up. You know, sometimes, arrogance is really just fear. It's really just ignorance. It's you can tell what people are projecting by how they treat others, which is like, I don't even know how you treat yourself when things are private.

Emiola
So it's more of an indication of the battle you're dealing with within versus how you're just seeing people. So for me, you know, in a country and I and I, I put I want to localize this because this is not the same east, west, north, south, but in a westernized, modernized 21st century capitalist like, we can have all the names for the country we live in.

Emiola
It's still the land of the free, the home of the brave. We can still do a lot. But in this country where, we have the connotation of a melting pot that can versus a pot look like a melting pot, just fuzes everything together to the point where you can't taste anything. But a potluck is you're bringing different things to the table, and I can taste.

Emiola
I just went to our Latinx graduations. I have some charters. You know, I, I grew, I grew up on diversity. So when I, when I say potluck, to me, it it brings it all together. But you can't bring something to the table if you're uncomfortable. I can't I can't tell somebody to say my name. Well, if I'm afraid of what it means for myself.

Emiola
So, you know, I had to become comfortable with myself in terms of. No, you don't shorten my name. If you can, say Tchaikovsky and Dostoevsky, and if we can say a lot of these more phonetically difficult, names, beautiful in their essence. But if we can say that, you can say, Emiola, we have a tonal language, you know, but we got, like, it's the beauty of it, but I had to get comfortable with it.

Emiola
And then once I was comfortable with it, I can invite people and not project my fear. Anger, like you said it wrong. It's like, no, this is beautiful night. Let me help you with it. Let me figure out, okay, let's talk about it. What would you love about names? What do you love about this? So the same can go with food?

Emiola
I won't, become belonging. You can see the motive when you don't force things down somebody's throat, but you invite them to taste. But you can only invite somebody to taste when you see them as the enemy. But you see the richness of what you have and say, you know what? I'm really just sharing what I have.

Emiola
I'm sharing the love and belonging and and safety that I have in my own self, even though it's progressive with you. Therefore, we can kind of create a sense, of belong because I'm just inviting people into the space that I'm already in.

Adriana
So, I have a follow up question about your sense of belonging, because there are different spaces that we live. For example, what is the difference between belonging to a community belonging to a school college versus in your workplace? Because it's more permanent and you have to show up professionally somehow. So do you see the difference between these spaces? How will you make yourself belonging?

Emiola
Absolutely. Because it's I mean, to go with the metaphors again, I see it as different plots of land, different types of soil.

Emiola
At work, I know I belong there, not because of the skin color or anything like that, but because of my merit, but because of my skill base. But then as I'm entering that space, I can bring all of me there with wisdom. But I have to come with the expectation that people may not care. Because it's it's not reciprocal all the time at work, because the foundation isn't built on that.

Emiola
The foundation of a workplace is built on you bringing your skill set, your capacity, to serve the greater good here, to do your job. So a lot of it is centered around the job is it may not be how I want, but I can still see the foundation there versus, you know, me belonging at home. The idea of belonging at home or within a family or within community isn't skill set.

Emiola
It's not performative. It's not based on what you do. It's just based on who you are. So the expectation is different. So if I may not go to the college that your parents want, you may not do this or do that. Your sense of belonging, your sense of acceptance should still be undergirded because it's not based on skill.

Emiola
So for me, anytime I'm entering a different space community, friends, family, I try to humble myself to understand really expectations. Because at the end of the day, I can come to work and you know, my name is I'm your love of it. I'm coming in with all of this stuff and no, look at me like, did you get the budget reports in?

Emiola
Did you have the program that I want? And I can't get offended because that's the expectation. However, when it comes to key factors, because I differentiate priorities from preference is my preference is that people understand where I'm coming from, etc. but the priority that you respect me, the priorities that you allow me to bring, the key factors that help me do my job as me to the table.

Emiola
But everything else can be icing on the cake. And that is really an indication of the boss that you have the work environment that you have. I try to make sure my staff bring all of you. You know what I mean to the table. So that's your work style, your language, how you want to speak, how you want to engage, and however, is conducive to the environment.

Emiola
But expectations are key for me. And also just effort and energy because I also look at what do I want to pour into this, into this environment and what will it take out of me? So for me, I just try to I check the land before. So in any case, before I walk in the ground before so I don't get surprised or oh, this, that.

Emiola
And the third is similar to America, the environment we're in right now. It's like I wanted to treat me a certain way and feel like I belong. But I understand the history, understand in the land that we're on, I understand the dynamics. So I can bring all of me meat to the table. People like, that's a really nice thesis.

Emiola
I'm still going to treat you like this and I'm okay now. I know how to navigate a bit more wisely. So yeah.

John
I have a question and this is where my ignorance comes into play. Yeah. When it comes to people with differing opinions and differing, ideas about, you know, people who have different beliefs or people who, you know, disagree, how do you, how do you make like, I don't know, somebody who's Democrat or Republican, right. And the you know, that's the big battle in the United States right now. How do they make each other feel like they belong? Or where does belonging come into play in a scenario like that, where beliefs and ideas are so different and one person will think, well, this person is wrong.

Emiola
I love that question because it's the million dollar question, how do we make people be? So if I had a clear answer, you know, I think, country would be in a better state. I think I have observations, because I honestly think this isn't new. We kind of go in cycles. What what does it mean to live amongst people with difference? You know, it's in every country. It's in every society. It just evolves and it grows.

Emiola
I think pertaining to where we're at right now, some of the more polarized tensions, you know, politically, religiously, culturally, ethnically, equitably in terms of the, the socio economically, how much money we have. So I think there's always tension there. But when I think about belonging and how others can make how one can make somebody else feel like they belong if they're opposed, belonging is really a byproduct.

Emiola
Belonging is a byproduct of the seed, you know, to me, it's not something you do. It's like, hey, give me sweat. Adriana, get give me sweat. I can't she can't give me sweat. It's a byproduct of an action. And for me, I'll go back to doctor Martin Luther King junior was one of my heroes. And, not just because he's Doctor Martin Luther King, but some of the nuances he talked about.

Emiola
And he built a lot of his work on the framework of the beloved community. And you can see a lot of the letters that he's written. It's that he penned. It wasn't always at a place where you would think he would write about his letter from the Birmingham jail. He wrote a letter to his constituents and friends about how, because they are good willed and good intention, he's going to check them on a few things because he wants to build a community, not where people are tolerated, but where people are beloved.

Emiola
So he he tapped into their values, not their actions, not the not the superficial, not what I see you doing, because what I see you doing is a product of how you see how you feel, what like the frameworks and values you have. So he didn't happen to, the white mob or it didn't happen to. Is it the elephant or the donkey?

Emiola
Is it is it the the byproduct of what I'm saying? He tapped into the root and he said, y'all look good. Intention. Well, Faith men, I'm going to engage with you at this point. And then he would give a quote saying, peace, Shalom. However, we want to call it is not the absence of tension, but it's the presence of justice.

Emiola
So tension. We have to get that into our framework. You can have relationship with others and still have tension. That's friction is inevitable. Growth is a choice. So what does it mean to be have tension with somebody? We have to learn how to argue and respect one another. We have to. We have. He was trying to change people's framework of how they see, therefore belonging, rich belonging would be the byproduct to the point where you don't tolerate somebody.

Emiola
I, I think of it like this. We're all at this table. This is inclusion right now. Diversity is the description of us, gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity. We can go down the line. Inclusion is all of us coming to the table having a seat close to it. Belonging, says Adriana. What food you like, say wood or. Okay. Are you allergic to anything?

Emiola
Well, how will you move like that? That's the. Oh, you thought of me? Yeah. Therefore. Oh, I can rest because I know you brought my cultural. You. You thought of my allergies you don't like, but that is a the thinking of somebody is a byproduct of an inner disposition that says, oh, this doesn't work unless everybody rest. You know, everybody feels like they like like they're here.

Emiola
So for me to get the best out of this meal, I have to make sure I buy. Everybody's included. So that's a long answer. A more so observations to to say belonging is not a, it's not an algorithm or an equation or to say, hey, we're going to do this to make sure people feel this way is more so we have to change how people see, but we can't tack on it.

Emiola
The titles we have are low hanging fruit. I really don't even talk too much about because I, I my work is in between rocks and hard places. I'm in between. I'm tall. I mean, I'm in the Israel Palestine Gaza issue, right? Right now. You mean like I'm in between interfaith? I'm in between. I'm in between. And people like, how do you do what I'm like?

Emiola
I'm not touchy. I don't start there with the tension. I go to the value system. I go to what you say. Similar to how Doctor King says, hey, the only reason why I'm coming to the United States is to say, I want you all to do. Which I say, y'all are going to do our paper because you're a you're a good nation.

Emiola
Don't lose your soul. As James Baldwin will say, I'm going to tap into your value system. So long answer out of of observations.

Susan
I there is so much there that I want to to ask about. I really appreciate that answer because I think, you know, preparation for this interview. I was listening to, like, looking at the website and, watching the video of the students who defined belonging for themselves. And I actually I kind of transcribed all of them. And what I found really interesting was that their definitions of belonging were all different. They were all nuanced. They all meant something a little different. There were a few that really stuck out to me and I think, kind of speak to what what you were talking about with, Doctor Martin Luther King Jr, in this idea of worthiness as belonging, I need to feel worthy that you care about my allergies, that you know what foods I like in order to feel like I can relax.

Susan
And the other one that really stuck out to me was one of the students talked about, belonging as boundary setting within learning and unlearning. And I really liked that because I think where I struggle, especially in the context of really kind of polarizing things, is there are just certain things that I can't I have trouble accepting.

Susan
I'll put myself out there. And so if I'm thinking about my boundaries when it comes to belonging and having tough conversations, my two boundaries would be that we agree that, every group of people deserves to exist. No group of people does not deserve to exist, and every person deserves autonomy over their body. Like those would be my two boundaries.

Susan
And then let's have a conversation within those. What are your thoughts on that? Is it is it fair to name boundaries when we're talking about belonging, or is that counter counter effective?

Emiola
One, I want to thank you for sharing that because you don't have to put yourself out there. But I think if we're getting inside, we gotta, we gotta we gotta get in there and kind of dig into the house.

Emiola
So boundary setting, I'll, I'll answer it in reverse. Because when I think about what we believe our requirements for belonging, it's all going to be different. Because sometimes our definition or desire of belonging comes from a place of fruitfulness. And sometimes it comes from a place of trauma. So I'll give you an example. Like, for me, I lived in more places than y'all have.

Emiola
Hands, fingers and toes, homeless shelters, hotels, people's, so instability was stable for me. That was a frequent thing. So for me to feel like I belong in a place, there's certain things that it's not just a home, but I need some quiet, you know what I mean? So. Or people. You know what I mean. Moving quickly in spaces.

Emiola
I'll have to catch it. Or I remember I will put my name on, like, my food and fridges. And I said, this is a priority for me. And I had friends and my wife that I'm like, what do you do? You know what I mean? Like certain things that other people would be like, yeah, you know, that's not a huge deal.

Emiola
I'm like, no, this needs to happen. Until. Until I had to dig in and ask myself, where is this desire coming from? Because boundary setting from for me and from most, because I just did my counseling and psychology background I can see is hooked on not just trauma, but there's a desire behind. It is kind of like anger is a secondary emotion.

Emiola
You know what I mean? What's underneath it is fear. It could be an ability to trust it. There's something digging into it. So for me, anytime we're talking about belonging one, we we acknowledge that there's different interpretations and meanings. But anytime we're talking about boundaries, it's not just because we want space to keep something in, but we want space to we want definition to keep things out.

Emiola
Like, we really want to toe that line. And for me, I think it's a great thing to touch on, but I'm not sure if it's the best place to start. Because we are people. Boundaries for people move all the time. They shift all the time. You know what I mean? It's geographically how we create boundaries of where people live, you know what I mean?

Emiola
It's like, hey, let's even the, the ground that the school that we're in right now, you know, to me, like we were on grounds that used to be somebody else's, like, boundary shift all the time. Even in my work right now, I'm learning about more pronouns. That, that, that, that people within the queer community and LGBT community have and engaging some of my staff to say, hey, I know you thought these were your boundaries, but right now these are other people.

Emiola
Like boundaries are defined places and that changes all the time. So for me, anytime I'm talking or engaging with what is necessary or requirements for talking about belonging, I dig down to values. Because if we don't dig down to values, you know what I mean to say, hey, autonomy of around some of these bodies, somebody can say, okay, what body do you mean what's autonomy?

Emiola
Me is like, okay, value system. I need you to understand my values. Because if you understand what's driving me to say that, you'll understand. You won't automatically push. You may be curious, but you won't just. You know. Know what? You don't know. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. I need you to understand why I'm talking about. And you may have to dig into who you are.

Emiola
What happened, how you what shaped and molded this perspective in this statement so somebody could say, oh, I get it now. And for me, listening to understand is better than listening to respond. A lot of people listening, hey shut up. Okay, so I can speak right after you, but it's like, no, no, I need you to understand stand.

Emiola
I need you to stand under this so that when you get my words. Okay, that's complex, but I get it now. I get why you need these boundaries. And that's what my friend. I get why you put your name on that pig on your tuna salad. Because you came from a place where food was stolen. You came from a place where people come to be your home and do.

Emiola
I don't seen some stuff. I look young, but I've lived a lot of lives. So you've come in a place where it's like boundaries. How people took. I didn't even come from a place where people hugged all the time. So somebody put their hand on a what you don't. I need you to respect. Would you? And I had the old that's a good boundary but is it healthy.

Emiola
Or are you even in that space where people relate. And let's dig into this. Because that boundary may change in five years as it did for me. Now I'll be hugging people all the time was going on but it wasn't like that. So that's why I say the value system. But going inside to to unpack or unlearn and be gracious to ourselves, and to other people because things change.

Emiola
We change all the time. This country changes all the time. And it will continue to be like that.

Music
Well, I just try to carry on because I still got far to go.

Adriana
So you wrote a book. You were a poet, a professional poet. I'm an amateur. So. With all the titles and all the education that you received, how all this, background influenced your style, your book. Can you talk a little bit about your poetry life?

Emiola
Sure. I don't do it as often now just because life has happened. I stopped after my mother passed and I got married, and, you know, I got a kid on the way. So, Thank you.

John
Congratulations.

Emiola
Thank you, thank you, thank you. See, that is gradually I receive it. You know, I prepare myself I this book. But poetry really came, compared to. I don't know if else I'm a marvel fan. I remember the movie Thor. And it was like finding Thor's hammer, Mjolnir in my pocket and then, like, twirling it around and cracking it on a wall, and the building crashes. So I see it as a gift from God.

Emiola
Because I didn't go to school for this, I didn't train. I wasn't in arts and stuff in high school, but I found a really at my father's. You know, I wrote a poem about it, because I'm a junior, he's a senior. Talk about who he was, etc.. Poetry. I really saw it as a gift from God that it's both nature and nurture.

Emiola
It was given to me, but I have to wield it and really handle it well and to see what it's for. But it's really, How can I say that? It's it's, it's an avenue for my love for words, because I'm a lover of words. Mainly because they contain life and how they impact people.

Emiola
But it's. I love poetry, mainly because it's sometimes our normal conversations are so black and white. You know what I mean? How we make meaning. Poetry just touches on literary language, metaphors, analogies, you know, hyperbole. Ornament appears you can go that little ration. It gives me more color to better paint a picture that can impact people a little bit different, that can change systems to get people to understand each other.

Emiola
That's why I use metaphor so much, not because they're high and lifted up, because a lot of people on the other end can use it and not talk about anything. And it's like, yeah, you gave me two stanzas and I have no idea what you're talking about. You know, it's similar to academic language, when I was in my doctor, and we can use pedagogy this and that.

Emiola
And, and you talk to the common person who, like, what are you talking about? So for me, I take my academic language, I take my poetic or literary language, and PB and J and I mix them together so that on the academic side, there is no ivory tower. I'm building a bridge. And on the literary side, I'm not in the clouds or on a on a hill, just writing stuff.

Emiola
It's meant to. I'll say this. Audre Lorde said an artist's responsibility is to consistently reflect the times, and I see myself in not so much as a thermometer, but a thermostat. That's another. I do that metaphor like this happens in my normal conversation, but I meant to help measure the atmosphere and change it. But to do that, you can't change something if you use the same tools that help get it to this place.

Emiola
I have to use something different and the best tool I have. You know I'm not seven feet tall. I'm not this. I'm not that. I know my constraints, but the thing that I believe God has given me and given all of us but had a little extra emphasis for me, just because that's that's how it is and that's how I've received it is words.

Emiola
Because I can see they they can disarm people without knowing. You can build people like that. You can do so much and they are a good articulation of your heart many times. But also they can cover your eyes and give you blind spots as well. So for me, that's why poetry I've kept it in my pocket, even if I'm not writing books I wrote.

Emiola
You know, the first book I wrote is Thorns and Thistles a message from Dust to Dust. It was really an anthology of poems of things I've seen. You know, I noticed in myself and in others a message from dust to dust, from creation to us. Us to one another. We're all dust. In my perspective. But we have a treasure inside these, you know, these jars of clay, this dust.

Emiola
So what does it mean to hear messages that are articulated but also spoken, but also painting, but also showing one another in good and bad times, you know, what does it mean to hear baby cry, but also see a dying man scream? What does it mean to you? You know, like that? Like there's messages all around. Many times were too calloused or too busy or too distracted to notice it.

Emiola
So that book was really just, you know, thorns and thistles. This is the world we live in. Or that right now we get roses, but we also get some thorns and thistles. And usually people don't smell the roses, but they'll feel those thorns. And what does it mean to highlight thorns? Because this is good pain. It hurts, but it still reminds you that this is the world we're living in.

Emiola
So while we want to smell the roses, we're going to have to live life through these thorns and unique ways and hear the messages. So I'm working on another one. It won't be a poetry book, but it'll be more of a it's a mixture of academic poetry, literary prose, etc. but all of it is, meant to highlight the, the beauty, but the the double edged sword, goodness of words, how they can benefit others.

Emiola
But I have been the recipient of my words like, you got to be a man of integrity. You got to watch what you say. You got to be wise how you you speak to people. You're projecting right now. Deal with yourself like it's a double edged sword. And I love that because I'm not exempt from what is coming out of me, which lets me know it's not just me, it's logic.

Emiola
So that's kind of where my love of poetry, which is really just communication and words ultimately ending at people, but coming from God for me. So yeah.

Adriana
And Audre Lorde says poetry is not a luxury.

Emiola
Come on, I can't. Not a lie. Sometimes aids in a color. I hate speaking in color. Sometimes I'm like, let me just say it plain. But then I don't have it like that. So.

Susan
But I, I think that it's, it provides imagery that typical conversation can't. And so when you say I am a thermostat, not a thermometer, I will remember that. Yeah, that will stick with me. And I know exactly what you meant, in a way that if you said my goal is to and these are my action items, you know, like, it's just it's not the same. And I think that it makes sense to me that poetry and communication and humility and humanity and belonging are kind of all wrapped up into your work. And I see, at least in our conversation and in some of the things that I've read, how how it's all tying together. I mean, you've drawn on psychology, you've drawn on theology, you've drawn on poetry.

Susan
Just in this short conversation, I think it speaks to, like, the importance of having these different lived experiences and how rich the human experience can be in just a single individual. And if we recognize that richness in each other, one like how beautiful and colorful and just lovely.

Emiola
We are missing out. Yeah, we are missing out on not bringing our host. If I just came and let me tell you my my dissertation, when I focus on that, I'll be like, come on, man. But it's like, no, you're I'm bringing it all to the table. And it's like this, a rich tapestry or because I'm hungry. This is like a rich table full of just saying. I didn't even know people that season.

Emiola
It like that is like, yeah, you've been missing out. And then what do you have that you didn't bring? Right? Because we're we are embodied stories. We are stories and memories and flavors and they bring it to the table. That palette will get used to it.

Music
So you have a story to tell. How I feel. I still have stories to tell.

John
If you have a belief and you think you need change in the world, when do you fight that fight? When do you fight for your belief and try to stand up for change? If that means speaking, if that means through poetry, or if that means through war.

Emiola
So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say this in the meet. The reason why I ask you. Because this I try to live it is that there's interpretations because people say fight the fight. What does that mean? So I ask you, like, what does that like the granular on my hands. What does that mean? So you saying, what does it when do we fight the fight.

John
And or do we fight the fight?

Emiola
Yeah. So I think. I don't know if it's George Washington who said that, but justice is the firmest pillar of good government. Like just George and Cornel West said this, justice is love outside. Like, like like you want to see love demonstrated it can it will come in the form of justice, which is also, an expression of giving, of seeing people as worthy because there's opportunities all the time.

Emiola
And it doesn't have to be on a grand scale. It can be one on one, like literally listening to somebody, you know what I mean? Like, but but the thing is, it's it's too simple to be true. It's to this can't be the fight when if we don't realize the fight is love, the fight is for people. The fight is for souls, the, the, the the.

Emiola
And it snowballs into Martin Luther King civil marches and stuff. But it starts as a small interaction. It starts with you, the fight for you to be somebody of integrity, or when you acquiesce to what this country or society or system wants to make you want to. That's the fight. Are you sensitive enough? Has life calloused you enough?

Emiola
Are you distracted enough? Are you missing the small moments? And I've been privileged to hide. This is the systemic stuff that I can deal with in the city of Pittsburgh and stuff. But it's a small one. When the students say, I was going to quit, my father came to me after he said, just be my father, dad two.

Emiola
And I was going to or did, and this happened that I was going to do that. I really hated people like this. But I kept coming to events and, and I saw how people treated you. It was a moment where somebody disrespected me publicly and mispronounced my name bad at a at an event that I was going to an award.

Emiola
It, that my family stood up and said they was acid. I they did and they all. What did you name the, in me not publicly in me stuff. Rosa, you should have done your research. My name is in. Why everybody get the name? But the place will come. Why? Every. And I wanted to respond, you know, because I knew you were kind of doing it on purpose.

Emiola
You know, when somebody's a droopy and you just come on, you're adding. You're adding letters like, this ain't him. And I remember, I, I respond, it's okay. I say, we can keep trying of what you said. And, and it wasn't a doormat thing, like, call me whatever. But it was like, you know what got my award? Said my speech.

Emiola
People cry, said, I walk down to my cats. I mean, how could you respond like that? And I was like, no, it's like, no, like something is going, thank you for doing that, because I'm going to change something. How I'm going to do it because I couldn't think somebody that it was a whole thing. But with this one person, no, like no other people felt this way because with this one person and I remember like, man, this moment trumps the award.

Emiola
Because the award is for skill. What I did at work and and all of a sudden this was like you had every reason to and you could have, but you did it for why. That is a fight that most people won't fight that at. That is the fight most people will fight the fight. They will is to get awards and attention.

Emiola
And to me, that's the one that should warrant a lot of attention because it's not letting people go with injustice. But I'm fighting for real justice, so I can then pour out from a pure place. Yeah.

Susan
Thank you so much for sharing that story. I think that you may have like unlocked the secret for how we cultivate belonging, at least for me, because you're right.

Susan
It's, it's when we have every right to be angry, to react. I think about the difference between reacting and responding. And I feel like in that moment you chose to respond rather than react. And and I think that that's that's the key. It's like you're not going to let it go, but you chose to respond in a way that was going to serve you in that moment and then take what you learned and and apply it kind of outside of that.

Susan
And maybe it's a conversation with the person, you know, giving the award or whoever was running the event or whatever. But it's it's when you have every right to be angry, to react to, to feel hate, to do all these things, and you choose not to do it anyway. To me, that is how you cultivate belonging.

Emiola
And it's and I'll say thank you for saying that because it's because I had a conversation with the person who messed it up privately.

Emiola
And I remember talking with some of my friends, I was like, why don't you do it publicly? She did it publicly, public for public. And I said, yes, I understand that because to be honest, black people, people of color, minoritized communities have had to carry the burden of extra benevolence in a country where it's like, you know, people have often coined the term the other cheek as a doormat.

Emiola
I think, like we've had to carry the be the bigger anything that heralds a moral victory for the the people at the bottom of the totem pole has usually have to carry it. The, you know, the person receiving it. So I want to say it's it wasn't just an extra benevolence carrier, but and I have to bring my whole self here.

Emiola
There was there's an example that set for me, you know what I mean by my ancestors culturally, ethnically, from really how they responded, but also religiously, because I look at my faith and how the one that I have set my life on how he responded to and where that came from, because all that, everything I gave it can be a behavior modification thing where people can do it.

Emiola
But if you're not anchored in something that can tether you, that's that's my warning. Belonging is, as you said, this is an I teach a doctoral course and we we give, an educational reason. We talk about how leadership is dangerous work, belonging, building, belonging in a world that wants to isolate people is dangerous work. If you are not tethered and anchored to something that you are not, just believe, but know and have tested that can anchor you.

Emiola
You will go with the winds in a way. So I give, I said that example to say what has tethered me, what anchored me, tether me in that moment, and wasn't just a I gotta get the strength up. It tethered me. So I just encouraged those that to me that is the way for belonging. But make sure you have something that anchors you, because if not, this world can consume you.

Emiola
Things can continue to happen and you're just like, I ain't got no more love in me. Like, I can't keep no more cheeks no more. Come on, y'all. So if you don't have something that anchors you, that fails you a reason, a rationale, an example for me, I know what that is for me and who that is for me.

Emiola
But I encourage though, because belonging is dangerous. It's not feathery. When we see like, hey, you want to make space for people, I got some for you. Like they put crosses on people like, what are you talking about? You want your community where your family live. You see them. I'm saying like, then it's like, oh, what do you.

Emiola
Yeah, you still want your job? Okay. Yeah, I then it's like, oh, you're coming at me. And it's like, yeah, because this is personal. Like it deals with people. So I just it's a warning, but it's it's as John Wilson said, this is good trouble. John. I'm, I'm, I forget his name is right next to that man's king.

Emiola
He just passed. He did he wrote a book called Good Trouble. This is good trouble. This is where the disturbance. It's worthy of this. Just make sure you have something tethered. Because I've learned that from those who have come before me.

Susan
That was. Yeah. That was really beautiful. Thank you. I'll be thinking about what tethers me, I think, and it actually got me thinking, and I, I know we're probably getting close to time, and I could talk to you for, like, the whole day.

Susan
So we'll have to have you back. When? When? At another time. But, I was listening to a podcast this morning. From, Brené Brown and Esther Perel. Talking about artificial intimacy and Astaire Esther actually, makes the argument in this podcast that what used to be the tethers for many people and what I experience as your tether is as religion, and, you know, spirituality, as we've become more secular, more individualized, more, capitalistic, we've lost that tether.

Susan
And so now the burden is on us to, like, create our own tether. And that's actually making it a lot harder for us to connect, to have community, to feel belonging. And so I just wanted to to share that with you because I feel like you've you've hit it and we and I'm thinking about myself because I, I religion is a little complicated for me.

Susan
And my mother was Lutheran and my dad is Jewish. It's been very interesting being on campus with all of that, going on and the expectations that are around kind of being in different, communities. But, but it's like now I have to find my tether. And how many of us are just really, I think, grasping at anything that could be a tether and then we end up with something that is not, not worthy, or, and get kind of led down the wrong path.

Susan
So I just wanted to say thank you so much for for that, beautiful metaphor and giving me something to think about. As we, as we move on.

Emiola
Thank you for sharing that. Yes. The journey we're all on. Fine. The winds will be there, the waves will be there, the storms will be there. But the anchor is to me top priority because it's.

Emiola
My mother used to say that before she passed. She said, even a still ship can drift away. It's not just, the highways and the winds and a lightning storm. You can be still, but because just because of the sheer existence we have, you will just drift away. So even when things are calm, you need something to anchor you and you.

Emiola
You have to vet that yourself because if you don't, you put your trust in your life in the hands of something that your grandmama said was good, or your father said or your mother said a lie. Set of cultures that are religious that you need to vet that yourself for you. So I just remember that, and it's important.

Emiola
So thank you for sharing it. Yeah.

Susan
Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to ask one last question. Unless Adriana or John, you have anything else to add? And it's a really easy one, so don't don't worry. I'm not, you know, so, you know, people are going to listen to this and they're going to say, okay, you know, I'm going to find my tether.

Susan
I'm going to try to grasp humility and be willing to listen and respond rather than react. But if someone wants to invite belonging into a into a relationship, into a space, maybe even into the classroom, could you give us something that you found is really a nice way to potentially, I guess, disarm people or get them to to, to think about belonging a little bit more.

Susan
I mean, you said you taught a class. Is there something that you sort of say to students at the beginning or something? We could maybe all try.

Emiola
Yes. Yeah. So I made an acronym for OID also inclusion belonging is two of them. One is, we want to make a home away from home. But at home is an acronym, obviously for poetry.

Emiola
I know me what it stands for. Accepted. A for accepting t for together h for heard o and m for open minded and e for in power. So when people want to feel at home, what does that mean? Because home to me is the center of belonging. When people feel like, hey, I can be myself, I'm at home.

Emiola
But it has different connotations to what has home been like for you, so you allow them to articulate it. What does it feel like for you to feel heard? What does it feel like for you to be accepted, to feel together and connected, to feel heard, to be open minded and challenged, to be empowered, and finally to have them articulate, belong to me has to be multisensory.

Emiola
So for some of my communities, they may not even know what belonging is, but I tell them picture. I need to articulate what makes you feel at rest, what makes you feel, because we have synonyms and descriptions. And once we go through that, it's an unpacking activity because usually we're really stuffed up. We gotta unpack it.

Emiola
And some students who say it's the smell of my, you know, my my, my, my, this food is the it's it's it's it's music. It's cultural music. It's names. It's multi sense. It's the feel. It's laughter is and the. And let's unpack why. Because many times for people you can't invite them into something until you've helped them walk out of something.

Emiola
Until you help them articulate it, not pull them out, not yank them out, but invite them and help them. It's kind of like steps. Let's talk about it. Unpack, in which you have to do that with yourself and with the story. So for me, I use the at home acronym accepted together, heard, open minded, and empowered and really use the multi-sensory nature because I only tap into who we are.

Emiola
You know what I mean? We taste, we touch, we see, we smell, we feel. Talk to me about how you have experience belonging, however it is in your life. And we're going to unpack it and kind of put it on display. So we could talk about what could it look like in a new space. Because this is a Nigeria, this is in DC for me.

Emiola
But I found a new African restaurant, you know, to me, and I found some other cultural ones because food is big for me, music is big for me, laughter is big for me. So I had to understand that. But somebody had to help me unpack it because before I was just like, hey, busywork is busywork. You know, when you go home, it's like, well, there's things here, there's people here, there's avenues here.

Emiola
I need you to tap it. But we got to talk about home, and we got to unpack your story. So I get those tidbits, the multi-sensory and the acronym for anybody who wants to invite and help people usher into it.

Adriana
I have one last question. Yes. So, this type of work that we do, it's a very good day today. I'm going to go home, and that's what it will look like to me. I did something today. So what is does something to you for belonging like for a big, long day? Yeah. That you did. Then you felt really good about it. Maybe you helped somebody, maybe you I don't know, it can be different for each one of us.

Emiola
For me, I can go home. I think it's two things. I can go home. I have to be able to look myself in the mirror, and and sleep at night. So when have I been a good witness of integrity? Because people don't simply hear what you say. They see how you live. So I have, I have I in my whole being how I respond, how I, how have I been a good witness of integrity and values and have I now the outward part, have I changed somebody's perspective.

Emiola
Have I influence. Because to me all of that is the snowball to actions and this and this. So I just just, just I just need 30s with some, just just give me some. Have I changed somebody's perspective? Because I am fine. I end with this metaphor. Oh, man. So this, I and I use it, in a speech, but there's a show on Netflix called afterlife.

Emiola
It's about this guy who lost his wife to cancer early in his marriage. And an older woman who lost her husband after 50 years of marriage. They become friends. They meet at, at the, not the funeral, but the cemetery of their beloveds. And he's wrestling with being a good person versus just telling everybody they're a and going about his life.

Emiola
He's wrestling with grief, and she gives him a quote that really resonates to me. She says, great societies grow when great people plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. And that angers me. I am fine being a sower and a water. I don't have to see the growth. I'm fine with it if I get to see it in this lifetime.

Emiola
I don't know how long I live, but I can go home knowing. Have you been a good witness in your life and have you outwardly sown or watered? It can look small, can look big. But if you know you sown water. Change of perspective. If I bless the seed of growth, great praise be to God. Thank you for my family and friends.

Emiola
If I'm not, I am fine because I know that grows great societies. I don't have to sit under the shade, of the tree I planted. That's for future generations.

Susan
Who are inside is created and hosted by Susan Graff and Adriana Modesto Gomes Da Silva, in collaboration with Karthik Hariharan and John Guinane. Thanks for being here.