Karthik
Welcome to Who We Are Inside, a Cupid podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome. Today we have Nadine Robert, who's a fourth year PhD candidate in oral and craniofacial sciences at the University of Pittsburgh. Her research mentor, Dr. Dubrova Napriela. Under her mentorship, Nadine focuses on understanding the molecular mechanism of phosphate signaling in odontoblasts and osteoblasts. She was in the School of Dental Medicine's graduate student representation at the UCGS, which is the University Council for Graduate Studies, from 2021 to 2024. Before joining the PhD program, she received a dental training in 80 from 2007 to 2012. She was a general practitioner and a preclinical and clinical assistant instructor at the Faculté d'Odontologie de l'Université d'Etat d'Été. From 2013 to 2018. In 2018, she received the prestigious Fulbright-Laspa scholarship to join the MS degree in oral biology at the University of Pittsburgh. She graduated from the master's program in 2020. She also received the Center for Latin America's Fellowship from 2018 to 2020 here at the University of Pittsburgh. During her master's, she worked with Dr. Hedo Saba Rogers to understand the development of midface in PRICL1 beetlejuice mouse models. Thank you for being here with us today. Thank you, Karthik.

Susan
So every week on the podcast, we ask folks to bring their heavy thing, the thing that they wish people would know without them having to explain it. And I'm always humbled by the responses. But I'm particularly and especially humbled by yours. And I'm really excited and honored to be able to dig into this. And so you shared that your thing is succeeding in graduate school while there is unprecedented political turmoil going on at home. So could you please walk us through, you know, where are you from and what's going on?

Nadine
Thank you, Susan. And I'm so happy to be here today to talk about my experience as an international student at the University of Pittsburgh for Haiti. I have been at the university since 2018 and I have been home only once in 2019. But because of all the political situation and also COVID, I could not go back home to visit my family. And I haven’t seen them, most of my family members since 2019. And even some of them when I was there, I could not visit them because the situation was very complicated and it was very risky to go to certain areas. So this is why I wanted to share my experience because I suffered a lot. So many times people, they go home, but when I'm taking my break, so I have to travel to the States, to another state or to Canada, but I cannot go home. So it was very painful and still painful. Yeah.

Karthik
Thanks for sharing that with us. I can totally empathize what you're feeling as someone whose family lived far away as well. And especially that COVID time was definitely difficult. Can you share a little bit about what helped you through that here? Were you able to find that community here to share the hard part that you were going through?

Nadine
I met many people in my department and also outside of the department through church activities. So there is the campus ministry. And I also, I'm very involved in the student's base organization, the Lagos. And also I participate in the poetry group. So I built a community and I met also some Haitians here and we built a small family. Now there are more Haitians in Pittsburgh or around the city. But when I came in 2018, so I met just a few people and I had also a fellow Fulbrighter. He was one year ahead of me. He was very kind in introducing me to Pittsburgh and also sharing his experience and how he coped when he was living here by himself.

Susan
I'm glad to hear that you were able to create a Haitian family here. And I also recognize that that's not the same as your own family. Can you help us understand what is it like to not just not be able to go home because of distance or finances? Not that those things aren't important and valid. But to not be able to go home because the situation is so complicated.

Nadine
It is so complicated because my mother, she has some health issues. And when you think about your mom, she's aging and you would like to go. At least when you have your break so you can go and comfort her. But you cannot do that. So it was very painful and difficult just to accept that each time I have a break, so I have to find another place to go. While other students, they travel home, they come back with some treats. So I cannot do the same. And on top of that, it's just knowing what is going on in Haiti. And when you express that I would like to come and visit you, mom, or talking to my sister, my sisters when they were in Haiti, and they were telling me, oh, so you are good where you are, so it's so unsafe, so you don't have to come, you don't have to take that risk. And sometimes they said, so we are praying to stay alive, so when it will be a better time so you can come safely, and just to spend some time with them. So I think navigating through that when most of the time because I'm living by myself, but I had also some roommates because I lived at the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary and I met some friends. They were very kind. We used to have weekly discussion, weekly meetings, where we share about some of our worries. So we were praying for each other, so we spent some time. We engaged in some social activities, going to parks, or sometimes we cook a meal together. So if you cannot go to a family, for example, on a Sunday, so we got together, and then so we prepare a meal like it was in a family. It's just our way of coping with this reality. Because there were also other students at this time, their countries also had some issues and they could not travel. So we had people from Myanmar, Nicaragua, so it was very good that we had each other so we could talk about what was going on in Haiti. And we were also checking about our family, about the safety of our family. So we were very on top of the news. Whenever something happened in one of these countries, we were messaging each other or just meeting to talk about that. And it's also very therapeutic when something is going on in your own country. So you are just listening to the news or you are reading what other people are saying, but most of the time you are trying to comfort your family members living there, but you do not have a space to express yourself. So that was also very good when I had the chance to talk about the situation and how I understood it, or I still understand it, and what is happening. All my family is living with that. All my colleagues, my former students, and everyone in Haiti, how they are handling that situation.

Susan
Can you tell us more about what is going on in Haiti right now?

Nadine
Since many years, I will say many years, but I can refer to 2018 when I was living. So we started having a lot of political issues. At this time, we had the past president that was assassinated, Jovenel Moise, in power. And because there were so many things going on, there were no parliament, and there were a lot of political unrest. The opposition, they were trying to overthrow the power. They were asking for a government of transition. And from that, there was so much violence in the country. Schools could not function. People could not go to their daily activities. The hospitals were closed. And almost at some point, for even close to one month or two months, people could not go outside. During the weekends, they can go. They do some grocery shopping, then they went back again for one more week, staying in their house, having shelter. But after that, when the president was assassinated, and before that, we started having a lot of kidnapping in Haiti, a lot of murders. And so many people, they were displaced because of gang violence. And unfortunately, we were witnessing from one neighborhood to the other. And at some point, we thought our family, they were safe where they were. But last year, so they had to leave also their house. So it's a very complicated situation with a lot of uncertainties. So you don't know what will happen the next day and at any time. So you may receive a phone call just telling you one of your closest friends or one of your family members, they were kidnapped. And almost everyone, so we have many, so we lost people, even in our family or some friends, some close friends. And while I was studying here, I lost one of my colleagues at the dental school. He was also a friend. They were trying to kidnap him, and I think he was trying to flee. And unfortunately, they shot him on the neck. And after one week, they tried so many things to save his life and even flying him to the Dominican Republic to find care. But unfortunately, he could not survive. And he left behind two children and his wife. So it's a very complicated situation. So when that happened, so we were talking to each other, and we were texting each other regularly. Then one day, so you receive a sad news. So it was very difficult, very hard for me just to cope to that. Yeah.

Susan
And I'm thinking, you know, I'm listening to you, and I'm fully engrossed in this experience, in your experience. And then I have to remind myself that you're here, and you probably had to get up the next day and, like, go to the lab and, like, do the things that you're doing here. How have you been able to carry that day in and day out?

Nadine
It was very complicated. But fortunately, I had my mentor, Dr. Napyala. She was very understanding. And I had some support in the lab for some experiment. I was doing them with our lab manager at this time, Catherine. So she helped a lot. And it's very hard to focus. So when you have so many things going on, and trying to keep in touch with them, trying to help as far as I was, it was very complicated. But at some point, I knew why I was here. Then I had to find my motivation to continue working and also to try to cope with that situation. So if you are studying, when you are studying, you will be focusing on what you are doing. And for some moments, you have to probably just put a pause or break on your problems to work in your present because I am in the United States. Everything, they had a lot of impact on me. But at the same time, I had to continue with my studies. I had to study. I had to progress. I had to collect data to write my thesis. So in the midst of everything, we had to work. And I think it's not only a situation that I was facing, but many other students coming from Haiti or any other countries with unprecedented political turmoil, they had to do that. Yeah.

Karthik
Along those lines, I was wondering, clearly, your list of successes is long. You've achieved great success here as a graduate student. What was that feeling like? Was there a pressure to perform constantly because you're sacrificing a lot of that time?

Nadine
No. I think also in my nature, I really like to progress. And also, we don't have to because I think especially... Yeah. You got to own up to your successes. It's important. Yeah. So sometimes when I doubt about myself, I had my mentor. She always encouraged me to apply. So whenever I'm eligible, because as an international student, sometimes you may not be eligible to compete. But whenever I was eligible, she encouraged me to compete. And sometimes said, I'm not ready. But she said, yeah, you can do it. For example, for the three-minute thesis competition last year, I passed my candidacy exam. But I said, no, I don't think I can do it because I was very nervous. And then she said, okay. So for that last year, she said, okay, so you have one year to prepare, to think about your slide. Then this year, she popped again the question. And I said, oh, I don't think I can. She said, yeah, you can. Yeah. So she encouraged me. And I had also a lot of support from the students of the department. They were very supportive. So we had the internal competition. Then after the students, the postdoc, and other people in our department, they went and they voted for me. And, yeah, so my Airbus fellows, I have also people from the Lagos community, very supportive and adverse, very supportive groups.

Susan
That's awesome. Yeah.

Karthik
A couple of times you had mentioned some of the support that you got from your church community and from your Lagos group. Could you tell us a little bit more about how, if you don't mind, how faith played a role in this for you?

Nadine
For me, the faith is you keep hoping. You never lose hope. Most of the time when we are facing hardship, we tend to discourage. And if you – it depends. Some people, they do not believe, but other people, they believe in many – so their spiritual life or many superpowers. It depends on where you – on what you believe in. Then, yeah, I think prayers help me. So whenever I'm here, then if there is a lot of shooting, Everyone, my family, sometimes they will call me to let me know. But I cannot do anything, so I can just pray, and then – or ask other people to pray for me or to pray for them and hoping God can help them. So this is the only thing I could do. Yeah, and then I think also it's also a very good community. Not only I receive prayer support, but we have also many events. So when I go to these events, I socialize. I meet new friends, and they are always new people. So they are very welcoming. So we meet from time to time. So we go to different activities, go to a movie, go to a festival, or go to watch the fireworks. So many things we do together. Yeah, sometimes we take that support system for granted. It's good to sort of reflect back and think about that. Yeah, and then they are also graduate students, so they are not living with their families. We support each other. Even if we are not in the same field, for sometimes, if I have a presentation coming on, then I ask for their feedback. So I deliver a presentation, and I ask for feedback. They are not in my field, but if they can understand, my committee will understand too.

Susan
What do you think, what is it about these individuals that makes you feel comfortable with them? How did you learn, okay, this is a group where I feel like I can belong?

Nadine
Before coming, I didn't have a lot of experience with international students. For six weeks, we had a pre-academic program at Philadelphia with Fulbright. So we had a lot of training about cultural diversity, and also about the American culture, to understand how different people behave, how different people may have different tastes in food. We went to different cuisine to try different food, and also the communication. It is a daily learning experience, because each time you meet someone from a different country, you learn something different. And when you go to one group, you find so many people from different countries, from different cultures. I think I see that they are welcoming when we can share. We understand each other, we don't have to be the same, but they value me as a person. They value my background. They support me, and they show their support. They will show up when you need them. And also, we support each other. If they are doing something, I show up. So we are very proactive. And sometimes people don't really talk when they have an issue. But some of them, they will talk to you, and then also they will make you comfortable. They know your country is facing a lot of problems, then they will tell you, if you want to talk, I am here. If you want to spend some time, don't stay isolated, please reach out. Many of them, they usually check in on me if I have a problem. And not only the students, but also in the department, the faculty members, and the deans. I think Dr. Wankiri Hill, sometimes when Haiti is facing a lot of problems, I will receive emails from the Office of Graduate Studies, from the School of Dental Medicine, and from these different communities. So you see that you have some value. If something is happening, people, they are aware, and also they show support.

Susan
So what I'm hearing from that, and I just want to repeat it back because I think it's so important, it sounds like that as an individual, what we can do to foster a sense of belonging and community for folks who are not from the Pittsburgh area, but particularly for international students and faculty, is to just stay curious and ask questions. And also to, once you have a little bit of information, like where you're from, to then educate yourself on what is your country's history, what are the current events, so that you know when it's really especially important to reach out and say, Dr. Robert, how are you doing today? Today must have been a really tough day. Am I getting that right, or is there something that I'm missing?

Nadine
Yes. Because sometimes I feel... You will feel sometimes you are a burden, because each time you will be asking people for support because there is something going on. But when they reach out, they know something is going on, if you are not saying anything, and if they do not see you when you do not show up. Usually if you show up to events and you just suddenly stop going to your regular activities, most of the time there is something going on. You may not be able to tell it, because every time people, when you are talking to someone, you will be saying, Oh, my country is facing a lot of issues. My family is not doing well. Then, at some point, that feeling of being a burden sometimes, repeating the same problems, I think it's good when people reach out too.

Susan
I think it's interesting, and I feel like this may be a result of our media-driven culture, that even though the situation in Haiti and with your family has not changed, that it's like you, as I'm experiencing what you're saying, are feeling bad that it's still happening. And you still need support, but it's still happening and you still need support. And I think about that when I think about kind of how as a society and a culture, we tend to shift from like kind of one disaster to the next. And then we've like forgotten that like, no, like these other disasters are still happening. And how do we create space and awareness and care for all of those things? Because they are all important. So- Empathy should last longer than a news cycle, right?

Karthik
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Susan
And I think that what you're speaking about in terms of feeling like a burden is something that, I think a lot of people go through, even if they're not experiencing circumstances like you are. I know for me personally, I have a, my second son has a genetic syndrome and he was in the NICU for a long time. And, you know, a lot of people gave me support initially, right, when he was first born. And then it's like, you know, people kind of go on through their day and it's not malicious. They just don't realize that like, this is still your reality and nothing's changed. And maybe some days are better than others. But I think just being aware that if it's not in front of you, it can still be really affecting that person and continuing to check in so that they don't feel like they have to ask. Like whenever people would say, you know, can I do something for you? My immediate reaction is no, I'm okay. But if someone says, you know, I'm bringing you dinner tomorrow night because I can tell that you don't have time to make dinner. I'm like, thank you so much. So I feel like it's like taking away the onus of asking and just being able to receive with gratitude for me has been really helpful. I don't know if that resonates or not.

Nadine
Yeah, that resonates to me too. Yes.

Karthik
Even recently, the president just stepped down, correct?

Nadine
The prime minister. And it's gone back to a situation where there's not a stable government still. Yeah, so we have a new prime minister appointed. We have a new force, the Kenyan force led by the UN. Now we are hoping some things will be done, but still the same situation is going on. Yeah.

Music
♪ In the light of dawn, try to carry on ♪ ♪ Cause I still got far to go ♪

Nadine
I remember when I first came to the US, I went to a conference and someone asked me, are you not afraid because you are coming from that, this small country and you come to a big country, to Australia and yeah, I was very shocked because everyone, so we should have equal opportunities. And even though our country is facing a lot of issues, but it doesn't mean that we cannot learn, we cannot do different, and so we cannot achieve big accomplishments.

Susan
So. Yeah. I'm hearing that maybe people tend to place Haitians in this sort of victim bucket, like you're a victim and so you're therefore weak or incapable and I should just pity. I'm hearing like a lot of some pity in that, is that, am I getting that right? I wanna make sure.

Nadine
Yeah, some people, yeah, they will say, so we are helping you, then you should be grateful, but at the same time, it's not only about the help, but also the contribution to what is going on and how you can help us solve it. So just instead of, okay, saying, you, we know, we have to do it, we have to fight corruption, we have to face that gang problem. So we have to give a better education, better access to health care and so many other things that are primary necessities for everyone.

Susan
Absolutely, and I think it's important too for folks to understand that the US is not without fault in the history of Haiti. And so, this is a completely separate conversation, but I do want to make a point that, in the early 20th century, we sent in US troops and installed a pro-US Haitian president and then supported folks like Papadak, who were responsible for tens of thousands of murders and kidnappings. And we were okay with that because they were, he was anti-communist. And so, in speaking about the history, some of the blame is with the US foreign policy. And so I think that's important for folks to understand and really be aware of as we are meeting and being in community with folks from Haiti is like owning up to that history. Which, as somebody who grew up in the US and who took US history, is conveniently not talked about in general curriculum. And it was actually at Pitt in my freshman year that I took a history of Latin American class and learned about all of the horrible dictators that we helped to put in power in Latin America and all of the destabilization effects that have come from that. It's almost like new age colonialism.

Karthik
That's exactly what it was. And I think the misplaced guilt transforming into a sort of a messiah complex is what most people from colonized countries generally would feel, correct me if I'm wrong, is, hey, you had it difficult because you were colonized and that victim mentality comes from there and then it transfers into, but we helped you so much, so you should be grateful after. Right. It's sort of, it's really, and I think a lot of it has to come with history education. I think it's just the lack of understanding of early colonization to late colonization all the way to 1900s is something that's lost. And that is true.

Susan
Yeah, I'm biased because I was a history major in undergrad, but yeah, I mean, I agree. If you push somebody down and skin their knee and give them a Band-Aid and say, you should be grateful for this Band-Aid, you're doing something wrong. So that's my own personal opinion that does not reflect the opinions of the University of Pittsburgh, but I don't mean to make light, but it is, you know, I think so many of us have been misinformed or just not informed about our, the US's history in so many places, particularly in Latin America and the Caribbean. So yeah, I appreciate, you know, you're kind of sharing a little bit about that and allowing me the space to dig in a little bit more.

Karthik
So I'm gonna change, slightly change topics a little bit, just going back to that culture that resonates with me a lot, just from a, as someone who's moved to a totally different culture and who is somewhat assimilated to a totally different culture and things like that, one, a challenge that I experienced as initially an international grad student and then as a faculty member is it was, it got, it took effort to hold on to my own culture, to my own center. What are your thoughts on that? What advice would you have for folks who assimilate to a different culture, but still have to remember that they're rooted in their own?

Nadine
I will advise people to stay true to themselves because this is your origin. Some people, they feel bad when it depends on the people, on the person, because some people, they feel bad when they say, we are from Haiti and people will show a lot of sympathy, a lot of empathy. Some people, they feel very bad and depressed. They will avoid telling other people where they come from, but me, I am different. I always say that I'm from Haiti. Yeah, sometimes when they may ask me, why your country is having all of these issues, but I don't have an answer. I will not forge one. I will say, I don't know, but this is things that have been going on since maybe three decades for now, even more, before I was born. We had a lot of issues and we still have issues and we have to face them. And I stay close to my culture. I always cook Haitian food. I always speak Creole. Yeah. With my family, when people, they show interest in Creole, I really appreciate and I try to practice with them. And also, I stay tuned about what is going on in terms of culture, in terms of arts, in terms of new books. In Haiti, I am away, but I remain Haitian.

Susan
I have so many questions now, and Karthik, that was such a great question. So I think, first off, I wanted to ask, because I was asking this question to myself and I'm preparing for today, where do you get your news on Haiti? Like, where do you like to get updates? And does that site have an English translation?

Nadine
Sometimes I read the New York Times, I read international journals, and also the Metropole, this is in French, Metropole, it's a local. We got some local news and also we have some groups, they share news, sometimes too much. Yeah, but also, when I talk to my family members, my friends, I also ask what is going on. Yeah, from daily basis, I always ask, so what is the news?

Karthik
That's important because some of our listeners might want to stay updated. And again, it goes back to that idea of if it's not in front of me, it's out of sight, out of mind, I'm not thinking about it, and that's important not to do that. So thank you, yeah.

Susan
I hate to make this like rapid fire questions, but do you have a Haitian author that you really love that you could recommend?

Nadine
For a novel, I can recommend one of my friends. Yes! It's about education, Augustine Nelson. So one of his work is available on Amazon. And we have also others, Frank Etienne. Frank Etienne, yeah. Who else? Then the former Dean of the School of Dental Medicine in Haiti, Dr. Poufette, he writes a lot of articles on the news too. I like reading him, Samuel Poufette. Then we have Emily Poufette. So I think she writes novels or poetry. I can't really remember, yeah.

Karthik
Thank you. Can you repeat your friend's name again?

Nadine
Augustine Nelson.

Susan
Augustine Nelson, okay, okay. I'm out of novels, so I'm really, really grateful. And my last question, rapid fire question, I imagine that if you're trying to cook your home country's food, but you are constrained with the grocery options in Pittsburgh, that can be a challenge. So where do you go grocery shopping when you wanna cook like a home cooked meal?

Nadine
Most of the time I go to a market district. I can find plantains.

Karthik
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, okay.

Nadine
Yeah, I go to the strip district. It's a bit going to different places to find what I can, what I need. Yeah, so when I go to market, to the strip district, I can find a lot of Latin American vegetables and fruits, so I guess.

Karthik
So going back to cultural, I have a question. I don't know if I'm phrasing it the best way, but most people, when they think Haiti, it's Creole culture and things like that. And a lot of people relate Creole culture to mostly French dominance in that culture. But I understand that there's a lot of Spanish influence as well, going back to the 14 and 1500s in Creole culture. Could you talk a little bit about that? Or is there anything that you find is more rooted with Latin American rather than people's understanding of Creole, which everybody thinks is mostly French?

Nadine
It is mostly French because for the last part of the colonization, so we had the French. Our Creole is mostly French. But we have also some words that come from different languages, from Spanish, from English, from some African languages. I don't know exactly which language, but I have a friend who is Haitian Congolese. He said that there are some words that are from Lingala. But I think most words from our language is, yeah. So if I'm speaking in Creole, if someone knows French, they will be able to understand and recognize, oh, this is not French, but there's so many French words. But the Haitian Creole, we have a grammar, it is evolving. So we have new words, so this is not a dead language.

Karthik
Yeah, I think the sort of common misunderstanding is that, oh, Creole is an old language that people don't speak anymore, which is not true, which is, it's very, very dominant, yeah.

Nadine
Yeah, so some people always said, oh, it's a broken French, but no, it's not a broken French because we, this is a language, French, a lot of, we had the French, and many of the slaves, they came from different countries, so they had to find a way to communicate to each other. They created that language, and it's a beautiful language. It's very easy to, so maybe I, because I'm Haitian, I say. There's a bias there. Yes.

Karthik
Now, people think about Patois like that as well. I can speak Patois pretty fluently, and people think it's a dead language. It's actually not. It's very evolving, yeah.

Susan
So you mentioned that you like to teach Creole. Is there a phrase that you can teach us here?

Nadine
One of the famous phrase, Sakpase. Nabule. Sakpase. Sakpase. Sakpase. Nabule. Nabule. Yes, it's, you're just asking, how are you doing? Nabule, yeah.

Karthik
I like that. All I know is laissez les bons temps rouler, which is, in Louisiana, it's laissez les bons temps rouler. Is that? Laissez les bons temps rouler? Yeah. Maybe from Louisiana. Yeah, yeah, that's where I've heard it, yeah. That means just be happy or something like that, isn't it? Or let the good times roll. Yes. Yeah.

Susan
That's interesting. Yeah, I, we were talking to somebody else on the podcast about the kind of intersections of language and culture and identity, and it brought something up for me that I'm just curious about. So she was a Vietnamese woman who was adopted, and so she was very much interested in embracing her Vietnamese culture, but did not speak the language, and felt like there were communities that were not open to her because she didn't speak the language. And I'm curious if you've met Haitians for whom that's true, that maybe they don't speak Creole, or they don't, they're not fluent, and is there a disconnect there, or is there enough sort of other culture to create connection?

Nadine
Yeah, there is enough. Yeah. We know some, I know some Haitian Americans, they do not speak Creole, but they understand if they're family. Some, the children, if their parents are not teaching them or not speaking in Creole with them, they will not be able to learn the language. Now, many people are trying to teach their children another, their own mother tongue, because it's very important now to be multilingual, and now we have a lot of Haitian immigrants when they can find someone who is fluent in English and can understand them, can translate for them, it's a plus. And I think in our community, the problem will be not being able to communicate with everyone. So for example, the grandparents, if they do not speak English, now there will be a problem with, between the child and also the grandparent. But the children, they learn so fast, so they will learn the language that way. I have some of my friends, their children, they were born, since we started having a lot of issues, they have never been to Haiti, but they speak perfect Creole because of the interaction. And yeah, so it might be a problem if most people, they do not speak, they do not speak English. Now, it's not that you do not welcome them, but they cannot communicate. They will be always smiling, they will find a way. Yeah.

Karthik
So along those lines, I have a question based on my personal experience being Indian in America. A lot of times when I go back to India, I'm looked at as American and in America, I'm looked at as Indian. So do you ever face that sort of identity clash?

Nadine
No, I cannot, I don't know. I understand. Because the last time I went, I had only one year here. The issue is sometimes we forget some words and we will be using the English word. Now, it's like a Franglish or Creole. Yeah. Yeah. So people will know. Yeah. They'll call you out on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan
Interesting. You know, I think that I've heard that, you know, the US is not a melting pot so much as a salad or a potluck where we all can bring our own cultures and perspectives and lived experiences and learn from each other, rather than trying to all kind of blend into being the same. And I'm curious, you know, for somebody who is less familiar with the Haitian culture, like what are some things you'd want them to know that they might not be able to find with like a simple Google search? What are some things that are really special for you?

Nadine
We are welcoming. We consider our friends as family. We really like our family. Our relatives, extended family, we consider them as family. And we are hardworking, very resilient. And what else? We like compa, we like dancing. The Haitians, they are very strong too. Because if you are aware about the situation in Haiti, then if you are looking in the numbers, how many people, you know, commit suicide, it's very less, very little. So I think people are very resilient. They also, they like studying. They like progress. This is something that we need to achieve at the country level. But I think so many people, they want to have a better future. And then also, we really like Haiti.

Susan
Yeah. Yeah, I had a, I was on the committee for a public health graduate student, master's student, who was from Haiti. And she also was just so proud of her heritage. She actually was born in the US. And I never thought to ask her if she spoke Creole. But she, you could just like see whenever I would ask her about Haiti, her face would just glow. And so you mentioned the importance of parents teaching their children about the culture and the language. And I think that that pride, you know, that pride in your identity and in your country, and it's absolutely lovely. What do you think people get wrong? Is there like, are there a couple of things that people just get wrong that are really irksome that we should just clarify right now for folks?

Nadine
I think some people, they just underestimate. Just by being Haitian. And people, they may say, oh, you know, you're from that country, then they may have so many stereotype or misconception about you. And I'm not going to go back in the past about so many bad things. But this is a very rich culture. And we, it's a blend of different, so if you go to Haiti, the food, really similar to Latin America. We have also some heritage from the native Indians from several countries in Africa. So we really keep that culture from the French too, because we had a long history with them.

Susan
We usually try to think about kind of one thing that we could do to help make your thing less heavy. There's so much about what's going on in your experience that I can't change. And I think that this is something that so many of us struggle with when we think about the political turmoil in Haiti, when we think about the war in Gaza, when we think about the war in Ukraine, global warming. It's like, there's all of these horrible things going on in the world, and we feel so powerless to be able to do anything. And what I like about this podcast is that we're really trying to narrow in on the individual. I can't fix the big problem, but I can see somebody, I can be with somebody and stand with somebody in that grief and that heaviness so that they don't have to carry it alone. So I'm wondering, what would support from, maybe not a good friend, but somebody like me, who you've just met, what would that look like for you?

Nadine
It will be, so let me just think about it. So the support can be manifested in different ways, because sometimes you may, so you may need social support. And then also, if you are aware about maybe one program that I can benefit of, or if there is something that can help me in my career, or if there is maybe a program that can help people from Haiti, so if you can share that with me, so that will be good. And also some resources, if you can, if you know some resources, and even some counseling resources or other activities. Because when I'm working, I tend to not really looking at other activities, but so you can see, oh, this event is going on, so sharing that, that just can, oh, okay, I can create some time this weekend, and I can just go for one hour or two hours and have some fun trying to alleviate some of the pain or struggle. And I think it's also not at individual level, whenever you have a chance or an opportunity, because you may be meeting so many people, if you can advocate for Haiti, that will be good. The more people that can talk about the situation, and also I didn't really talk about the human rights violations and so many things going on, and that would be very useful and powerful. So I think now we have less people that are advocating for us. So in the past, we really had a strong presence in other countries, people, they were showing more support. So that support we really needed. So we really need to, other people to be aware of what is going on in Haiti, and how they can help and how the government can help just to solve some of the problems. So really, I'm thinking about individual level, might be just, you know, so just person-centered. But what we really need is not really to create a good, better environment for only one person, why? Even if many people can help, can advocate, that will be very useful.

Susan
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for your time today, for sharing your experience. We could have an entire separate podcast on your work and how that's impacting, you know, kids and everything. I mean, there's so much there. But yeah, I'm just really grateful to have the opportunity to talk to you about this so that, you know, we can learn more, our listeners can learn more. And yeah, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much.

Nadine
Thank you so much, Karthik and Susan.

HOST
How do you say goodbye in Creole?

Nadine
Au revoir.

Susan
Who We Are Inside is created and hosted by Susan Graff and Adriana Modesto Gomez da Silva in collaboration with Karthik Hariharan and John Ganan. Thanks for being here.